About
On the 17th of March, our office in Vienna was unusually crowded and maybe even more so — unusually tidy. We happily, yet a little nervously, hosted the AXIOM Gamma Intermediate Technical Review with the participation of all consortium partners, our project officer from the European Commission and two independent reviewers. It was a very busy day, with various presentations all centering on the AXIOM Gamma developments. After a brief introduction, we led the group through an exhibition setting of sorts; presenting all the different parts of our project history. This consisted of tables showcasing the software, hardware and the enclosure of the AXIOM Gamma — giving an intimate feeling of how much work went into the creation of this future camera. Afterwards, each consortium partner gave a presentation about their particular project contributions including Q&A by the reviewers.
Partner presentations
Yes, the list of presentations was long and they were full of content. After the general introduction, our colleagues from af inventions; Magnus Asplund and Carsten Bohnens talked about the exemplary hardware developments in detail. The following presentation was held by Michael Gielda, supported by a descriptive demonstration from Peter Gielda which showcased the amazing work done by Antmicro. apertus° was personified by Herbert Pötzl and Sebastian Pichelhofer, who had a lot to say about testing and quality assurance but kept it as short as possible yet as detailed as necessary to tackle these issues in just one presentation. The closing event of our morning session was initiated by Michele Nicoletti presenting DENZ's enclosure production. Fortunately, our agenda demanded a lunch break after so much information being dropped on us. The light management report was scheduled after lunch and was presented by Luise Reitstätter and Sebastian — who switched hats from apertus° spokesman to university project lead. Matthias Tarasiewicz then elaborately talked about dissemination and documentation activities and then ended with a live demo of our in house project "Elmyra", developed by Simon Repp. It sure made a grand finale for our demonstrations. Finally, we left our lab to give the EU reviewers the privacy needed to gather their thoughts. So we wandered off, trying to keep calm, while awaiting feedback. It turned out that our reviewers were very enthusiastic about this unique project and its potential, so it seems like the presentations did it justice. We received excellently positive feedback and a lot of encouragement for the remaining work that awaits us before the final review. It was a very exciting day with an excellent outcome. Hurray!
AXIOM Gamma Future
We know a lot of you will already be on your toes to jump up and write us an email asking when the AXIOM Gamma will be ready to ship. We would love to just have a camera ready for every single one of you instantly, but the reality of getting this kind of production rolling is very different from how we would like it to be. With the AXIOM Beta, we are trying to keep every step of the production process in-house — giving us much more flexibility and the possibility to build a small volume run of cameras for developers for very reasonable prices. The AXIOM Gamma is different: because of the complexity involved and machines required, the production cannot be handled by us in-house. Doing it externally is the only viable option and for that to work economically, we need to produce a significant number of cameras initially. Where will the funds required to do that be coming from? We are considering another crowd funding campaign for the AXIOM Gamma — but because the target sum would need to be significantly higher than we aimed for with the AXIOM Beta development campaign, we are not sure it's the best choice. We will continue thinking about this and are happy to engage in discussions.
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20 Comments
A great article with zero
A great article with zero information. It would have been interesting for example, what good feedback in particular you got. About what? 'Unique' and 'with potential' is hardly a good feedback. That's like saying 'we appreciate your effort'.
In case you want some feedback from somebody who actually matters (hint: a potential customer), here is some: Of course I'm observing your project from a distant point of view. And I'm really not interessted in getting too much 'behind the scenes'.
That said, the first time I heard about your project, there has been a specific aspect, which got my attention: The idea of being able to purchase a camera with an open firmware. You may or may not know that this is the core feature of your product. If I want to just buy a good camera, then I would have dozens of other and better (and surely cheaper) options than anything your unexperienced company could ever produce. But being able to program the camera's internal processing and outputting sounds very interesting for somebody like me, who a) works with open-source software all the time, and b) likes the idea of giving his personal note to the whole signal- and workflow. At times the only alternative to your product would be to build a camera from the scratch. While sensors and FPGAs do exist of course (for a reasonable price btw), building a case, mount, cooling etc. seems to be a nearly insurmountable task.
So far, so good. But: I'm waiting now for months and months and I'm looking at your site from time to time, to see how the process is. And I'm sure you're working hard and bla bla. But the only things I hear about are problems. I got the clear impression that you are overstrained with your project. And I do not expect anymore to get even close to purchase a product from you in ANY reasonable time. Because, even if you release your first product line, I would never buy this first banana-product. I would observe how the market reacts and how people review it. Then maybe I would buy the second line. I think most people would decide like this - maybe aside from people who do not mind spending around 8.000 € (yeah, c'mon, we know what 'well under 10k' means) for an experimental technology.
So - from my point of view - what could you do / have done? First: You communication is kind of unprofessional. If you need more time than estimated because you discover more problems than expected, then you have to keep me hooked. Tell me about success. Show me prototypes. Show me process and solutions. Show me sample footage (like real footage, not some youtube clips). Give me a sandbox to test software developing on your OS. Tell me about how you successfully installed gentoo on the AXIOM. But you published in fact just a single article about your process, and this was 9 months ago. The rest is redundant and uninteresting blabbering. And Problems. Problems everywhere. Now in this article - for example - you say you need more money. Great. This really supports my believe that you will finish your product eventually.
I cannot understand how you wouldn't expect to disappoint people over time by this behavior. I personally must say I am, and I won't observe your process anymore from now on. Maybe - in a far, far future - I will hear about your finished product somewhere, and then I will have a look at it again. ... But somehow I have a feeling that you will even manage to miss the core feature of your product in the end. For "good reasons". Well ... or I'll be positively surprised ... let's hope.
Hey Benjamin!
Hey Benjamin!
First, thanks for taking the time and providing feedback!
Speaking of feedback, the article doesn't mention "good feedback" at all. What we got was "positive feedback".
We are well aware that one of the core features is an open firmware. We also consider the fact that the camera is open hardware a core feature :)
For the AXIOM Beta, the case isn't that important, it works quite well without it. Cooling is working, otherwise it would overheat quickly. On the mount side, we support Canon, Nikon and Sony - although only passive lens systems for now - so that seems to be covered as well.
The first Early Betas have already been shipped, more are being assembled and tested right now and will most likely ship next week.
I completely agree that we are not publishing enough "good news" and "achievements", mainly because we made the experience that this leads to certain - often unrealistic - expectations. So we usually focus on the challenges ahead, and report what needs to be done. We've shown a lot of prototypes and sample footage - you can always get the raw data if you like to hack on it, just let us know.
All in all, we are very sorry that you are disappointed, but that's life and unfortunately we can't possibly please everyone. Maybe the AXIOM cameras are just not "your thing", maybe it is just that we didn't manage to communicate the facts which are important for you. In any case, we wish you all the best ...
Thanks again,
Herbert
The article delivers not
The article delivers not really much information, but the pictures are interesting. I think with a second crowdfunding campaign for the Axiom Gamma you will not reach a much higher goal, because for a normal person about 10.000 bucks are not very less. Most people have to put aside the money for a longer time to purchase the camera. So I would begin to search for a big investor that is interested in buying your company. The problem with this is you could lose the freedom of choice.
After "Craft" camera
After "Craft" camera accounced their modular camera thingy, the Axiom project become more and more uninteresting to me, due to no real news, no price announcement, no future projections. The only thing left for this camera is the open platform, where anyone could bring something on it. Problem is the idea only works if your product gain traction, and the traction is lost at least a year ago due to nothing happening. Looking at the useless photos, I felt the camera price to rising every minutes you didn't announce them because you guys take too long. Now you again need more money for the project, and even said the prototype will only be cheaper for the first wave of "investors", which in fact is not a low price at all, makes me doubt where this camera should stand in market. Professional? Consumers? Prosumers? Why should I buy your stuff?
Professional already got their REDs and ARRIs, Prosumers have their Blackmagic and Sony, Consumers wouldn't even consider this kind of tech, what makes your camera so special? Looking at the Beta already cost EU 5990 at expected retail price with only barebones functionality, the gamma project surely cost even more if I need more functions. At that price point, I can buy a FS5 or Blackmagic Mini Ursa that does everything the Beta can plus more,so what's the point here?
The ability to scale? I still failed to see that after so long, the beta isn't really modular , it is just a modular structure encased in a body, how's that different to my A7s?
The open platform? Who really will develop stuff if your camera cost so much in the first place, open platform is suppose to be a low cost alternative to closed platform, trading in cost for stability. If I am paying that much for a camera, I would expect it to have a bunch of function built in with full Professional Support.
"All in all, we are very sorry that you are disappointed, but that's life and unfortunately we can't possibly please everyone." The only people are pleased is no one. Axiom is my thing, but counter-intuitive to what a open platform is, charging premium for a open platform? How is that suppose to work? There isn't even a fully modular open platform prototype yet, How can you convince a potential customer to get interested? This feels like a "big boys club" now and is cut off from the entirety of the market. I strongly recommend you guys re-evaluate where your camera should be positioned right now.
In the end, everything boils down to cost-effectiveness and uniqueness. I failed to see proposed interesting design, the cost is fairly expensive already, and the open-platform means nothing if no is developing for it. At least let us know what can we do with the camera itself.
If the beta follow through
If the beta follow through say anything, is that people are losing interest because of no-progress and the unexpected high-cost.
You project is LOSING TRACTION and yet the Panic Mode seems not kicking in after losing 350out of 500+ Supporters, hope you guys could follow through the project and wish you guys all the best
Thanks for the feedback and
Thanks for the feedback and sharing your concerns. It's much appreciated!
I am not sure panic would solve anything though :)
The problem is always the
The problem is always the same - once EU money is involved, satisfying the bureaucrats to get the next round of funding become the prime objective. Product and customers are secondary. In a way VC makes for faster development because the product is the focus. Maybe a camera company will rise out of the ashes of this product, but the Apertus project is falling behind the curve every day.
We also noticed that the EU
We also noticed that the EU regulations and framework are a bit unconventional for projects like us and seem to have been created for projects done by big corporation structures... so we try to make the most of it...
I'd agree that VC funded projects are more under pressure to generate profit and therefore focus on the product as you said but that also comes with the caveat that the VC takes ownership of a percentage of the technology which might become a conflict of interest with open source and the Independence of the the project - I am not saying that is per se a bad thing - it just has to be considered in the big picture.
I'm happy to see I'm not the
I'm happy to see I'm not the only one disappointed from the way things are going at Apertus. Lot's of blabla team talks that might only interest speialized geeks. No communication about deadlines, specific expectations, no whens and no hows. Guys, wake up and hire professional people in Management and communication ! I mean every company faces problems while developing a product but I never saw RED or Black Magic diffusing videos about their technical problems, I only see the finished products or prototypes, and I know more or less when to expect new announcments... I understand you guys are informing your crowdfunding community about your progress but I think you are missing something here: the only people excited about your technical challenges are engineers like you not filmmakers like me.
Glad to hear you noticed that
Glad to hear you noticed that we are doing things differently by giving the public/community a honest regular insight into the development process and things happening behind the scenes which includes sharing the good things as well as the challenges and problems we are facing in the project.
There are two types of people
There are two types of people, Doers and Talkers.
The open source arena is typically dominated by Doers and usually gets the bad reputation from Talkers.
Here my personal opinions to some of the comments:
@Felix: The Beta development has and still does make great progress - the Early Betas are shipping, new features were added and still the resulting development kit didn't get more expensive than planned or advertised, because we do our best to keep it affordable. Why should we panic?
@edmund: Being just another camera company (like so many proprietary companies out there) never was and never will be our goal. If you are looking for a cheap proprietary camera with built in obsolescence, limited interoperability and little to none freedom, there are plenty of those out there ... get one and be happy.
@Ashkar: If all film makers would be like you, then this project would never have started in the first place, because everybody would have been more than happy with big companies spewing out a new proprietary camera every year, spending most of your money on management and public relation producing a lot of hot air and inferior products.
I'm well aware that not everybody watching this project - and for what it's worth, commenting here - is an open source enthusiast, and that's a good thing in my opinion. I'm perfectly fine with anybody having their own opinion about open source and personal freedom in general.
Nevertheless, I would love to have a discussion with those individuals commenting here, but unfortunately they are usually not interested in a decent conversation and prefer to voice their opinion without any further discussion ... blog style.
That said, I dare you to visit our IRC channel and actually join the discussion about what we do how and when and if you are brave enough, you can pick up some task yourself, actively contributing and thus making it a little bit better.
All the best,
Herbert
Wow, this is the most
Wow, this is the most unprofessional response I've ever seen on a company's website.
Are you mad or something? Mad about your customers? Really? Or do you think your response would offer some sane, calm and decent arguments? If you'd be my employee, I'd instantly fire you for this!
In case you don't see your fault, here's a sumary:
1.) You start with classifing people in Doers and Talkers. And you imply we would be only Talkers who do not even step into a propper discussion.
2.) You say you don't want to be like any other company. Oh, aren't you one special snowflake? Because, yeah, other companies are really bad, and you are just great.
And then? "built-in obsolescense"? Really? Are we going on the ayurveda esoteric trip now? Do you have some other conspiracy theories you want to share here?
3.) You have the guts to say to one of your potential customers: "If every filmmaker would be like you, (...) the project never had started" ... ?? ... Are you nuts? Seriously, how dare you to talk on such a cheap niveau to anybody contributing feedback to you "great and different" project?
If anything is "blog-style" then this.
... Actually my last hope is you're actually not involved in the project at all and are just trolling ... omg.
Dear Bertl:
Dear Bertl
Don't disguise your insult in a polite manner, if you want to insult me, at least have the guts directly attack me, I have nothing to lose, on the otherhand you are representing a group of people.
I don't ever tried to devalue the Axiom Project, it doesn't make sense to me, at the end, everyone else profit from the open platform.
But in the end, I am expressing my worry on the project, just like Edmund said it seems like the project seems falling behind(correct me if I am wrong, but the appearance of idea imitators should really really lit the red lights, despite their non-open nature).
Countering your arguments, this project however isn't like any free open source project out there, you are not developing a software with no hardware, you have to build hardware for it, it is a platfrom, it is a business, where everything needs money money money. I am no software developer, but yet I can vote with my wallet where the companies needs to stay afloat with them. Insulting me and others expressing worry does no good to the project AT ALL. Notice my arguments, most of them are questions, not really statements, the goal is to invoke discussion, and yet you see me as a enemy for no apparent reason.
Maybe that's me misunderstanding the entire situation, maybe this project is really a open source project and nothing else. Maybe this is a different one, or maybe THE ONE.
But, I am pretty disappointed with "they don't want discussion" attitude. This is just like indie devs for gaming, venting their anger towards someone else because someone wants the project to be better. The worse thing is, we are expressing genuine concern instead of some random internet trolling.
Making enemies with potential friends does not make you look cool, instead you look immature by posting the last few paragraph that insults us for no apparent reason. You can always save it for genuine trolls and people who despises, but at least, certainly not me
Felix,
Felix,
If I would want to insult you, trust me, I wouldn't disguise it.
Note that I'm speaking my own opinion here, and not for the apertus° association.
When I say 'we' I merely mean the group of people actively working on the project like I do.
I don't think the project is falling behind, although I had expected that at this point the community would be more active and not just merely bystanders (my apologies to all those folks who actually do some work), after all, when it comes to freedom, a lot is at stake.
The appearance of imitators seems to me like a good thing, as it shows that we are not just on the right track but also slowly start to affect the industry, which slowly begins to move in the 'right' direction.
Just because we do not stop at open source software, but also develop open source (and free as in speech) hardware doesn't mean that the project cannot be compared to other open source projects. Note that there are more and more open hardware projects popping up nowadays.
Regarding discussion: I love discussion (and you can have more than you ever want when you visit our IRC channel), but there is a point where somebody has to roll up the sleeves and start working on something. The project won't scale when all we get is more and more folks who think they know what the best way to go about something would be (even if they do), it only will work when the community starts to act.
Finally, I don't see you as enemy and I would love to embrace you as friend, but I don't really know you (yet) and you do not know me either. So let's meet on IRC and talk about your concerns and then we will see what you and we can do about them. Fair?
Best,
Herbert
hI everybody,
hI everybody,
I would like to react to some comments.
I'm filmaker and i had buy a voucher in the campaign.
After read some news after the campaign, i was a little bit frustrated because i didnt understand how to help the team.
But one day i was going on the irc channel just to say "how i can help you".
And what i understand is if you are a killer in communication the community can found a task for you.
And you can help them at the same level than you.
I'm pretty sure that everyone had buy a voucher, if he can speak and read, can help the community. And more we are to do that, more the project will be fast and big.
Other thing i understand is that we will have maybe the same camera in 20 years, just with changes components and sensor, we will have a plugable camera for life.
So i'm not disappointed about the time of process because in all cases this camera is already one step forward to the others camera i know (also craft).
It's also very interesting try to understand how a camera it's make, and for sure i will not understand everything about "geek task" but i'm sure that all i understand now will help the community and me in the future.
Last thing is since i come on the irc channel, i never seen before guys working hard like this on a project, and i'm pretty sure that most of others company doesn't work like this. Maybe some of them work hard to make money but nothing more to satisfy durably their customers and this is why i'm here !
I back their project because
I back their project because I think they are doing something great, but they are way behind their schedule, something that I don't like, so I message them and asking my money back, they don't like it and became rude, After talking to them, they still don't want to refund my money. Becareful guys, I still don't see when they are going to finish ...
I am happy to publish the
I am happy to publish the entire email conversation we had here to show that nobody was ever rude to you. We also tried our best to explain the situation with the crowdfunding money refund quite clearly in that email conversation. If anything is still unclear please let us know and we will do anything to clarify.
Sad to see that some folks
Sad to see that some folks still just cant get accross their self-consciousness from "clients" 'n "costumers" ( in total: "consumers") towards a respectful member of a "community". Nice progress anyway!! If we could reserverve two slots on top, front to back - we could produce some tasty toast with the prototype. On the go and just by overheat! 120 fps for medium and 240 fps well done. I'am glad there is no overpayed management, that will now evaluate the worth of my idea - and then tries to sell it back to me with an product cycle of less than 24 Months and a 400 % magin per unit. Regards Phil C
If there is one thing that
If there is one thing that immediately strikes me from the images above it's camera dimensions and ergonomics. Maybe I haven't understood your prototyping/design process but as a professional film maker I can immediately see that the current design as illustrated in the images makes most, I emphasise MOST, types of filming outside that of pure studio work - difficult, problematic and cumbersome. Which is a shame as the rest of the promised design features are exactly what I'm looking for.
You are doing great engineering work but as a potential buyer (I came close to getting the BETA) I still don't know what the final device is you are offering.
Please communicate the product goals more effectively (what is definite, what is wish list)
For example I still don't know what recording medium (SSD, CFast etc) you are aiming for if at all (external recorders) on release.
Another example, in my mind, when a camera suggests it's "Modular" that means one can add/remove sections of the camera the body gets bigger or smaller (very useful) as suggested in your promotional material but the current images suggest a fixed and large body size with slots (not so useful - in fact a hindrance) Now this maybe part of your prototyping process but as a potential buyer not knowing makes me nervous/cautious.
Overall the camera is on paper a great idea if fact it is exactly what I'm currently looking for but get the ergonomics right and the documentation needed for development post release and you are onto a winner.
Sorry if this post seems over critical I'm looking forward to see what happens - so keep up the good work.
All the best
it's just a prototype so the
it's just a prototype so the first case is mostly big, ugly, heavy..... even the first red camera was in a wooden box. (http://www.red.com/history) the final version will be surly different or i hope denz makes something nice!
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